SE:  So tell me, Carla, you have a website and an occupation that you call Beyond Therapy.  Why did you choose the words Beyond Therapy and why do you think people need to go beyond therapy?

CR:  Beyond Therapy came to me one day when I was rethinking my practice and what I felt called to do in my work with people.  Therapy no longer seemed big enough to encompass the territory I found myself entering.  I found myself rethinking illness and rethinking why people have the difficulties they have.  I felt as though I was moving out beyond the realm of traditional psychotherapy. 

When I first began this shift I hadn’t heard of eco-psychology or eco-therapists.  I had not yet read books such as We’ve Had a Hundred Years of Psychotherapy and the World is Getting Worse by James Hillman or My Name is Chellis and I’m in Recovery from Western Civilization by Chellis Glendinning.  I only had an intuitive sense that there was more to healing than what I had found through traditional psychotherapy.  I began to see how this culture is keeping people disconnected from themselves, others and the natural world.  I began to see that this is as important, if not more so, as one’s family of origin.  I began introducing this idea into my sessions and saw people respond.  Then, over time, I began to run into the ideas of eco-psychology and my intuition was confirmed.  According to Wikipedia, “The basic idea of ecopsychology is that while the human mind is shaped by the modern social world, it can be readily inspired and comforted by the wider natural world, because that is the arena in which it originally evolved. Mental health or unhealth cannot be understood simply in the narrow context of only intrapsychic phenomena or social relations. One also has to include the relationship of humans to other species and ecosytems.”

James Hillman says “[Psychotherapy] makes every problem a subjective, inner problem. And that's not where the problems come from. They come from the environment, the cities, the economy, the racism. They come from architecture, school systems, capitalism, exploitation. They come from many places that psychotherapy does not address. Psychotherapy theory turns it all on you: you are the one who is wrong. What I'm trying to say is that, if a kid is having trouble or is discouraged, the problem is not just inside the kid; it's also in the system, the society.” (On Soul, Character and Calling)

So I began bringing cultural and ecological issues into my therapy sessions and my clients responded.  They told me they felt less insane as they began to see the insanity of this culture.  I began to view them less from a psychopathology model and more as innately intelligent and spiritual beings who had lost touch with their essence through a disconnecting and destructive culture.  I began supporting my clients in reconnecting with the natural world and they are finding healing there.

SE:  Let’s talk about the value of having a therapist or mentor or elder to talk with.  Why can’t people just get what they need from talking with their friends or family?  Why do people need someone from outside that they pay?  Don’t people deserve to have the kind of help that you’re offering without having to pay for it? 

CR:  I believe some people can get what they need from friends or family.  And there are those who do.  However, many of us come from friends and family who are so wounded by this destructive culture that they are unable to give the kind of support needed to bring about healing, connection and presence.  A therapist, mentor or elder who is facing into the planetary predicament and is doing their own healing can come alongside people offering guidance and support through connection and presence.

The notion around money is often charged and full of issues.  I know that I personally struggle with our culture’s notions of money and its misuse and the resulting damage to peoples’ souls and to our planet.  I do believe that people deserve to have the kind of help that I offer without having to pay money for it.  In earlier times when people lived tribally my kind of services where probably rarely needed but if they were needed likely there was a built in system of exchange.  But, alas, we live in a culture that functions (dys-functions) with money.

And while I have extricated myself to some degree from this culture I still have one foot in it and will for awhile.  Money is our medium of exchange so we still use it (that is until the economy completely collapses and perhaps then barter will become the norm).  As it is, I offer a much reduced rate compared to the going rates that are being charged now for similar services.  I do this because I can; because I’ve simplified my life to the point where my bills are few.  I offer this on behalf of folks who are struggling financially and don’t have good health insurance.  I do this as my protest against this culture of greed. 

SE:  How long have you been staring down the predicament that we’re facing on the planet with energy, climate, economic and social disintegration?  And what are your newest insights about how to be fully human in the face of all of that, or can people be fully human in the face of all of that?

CR:  I’ve been looking at these issues since 2000 when I first read The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight by Thom Hartman.  As I mentioned in my interview with Carolyn Baker last year, this book began my journey facing into the current world predicament.  At the back of the book was a long reading list that I immediately began to tackle and from there I was led to other books, articles and conversations.  It’s been a whirlwind of a ride.

What does it mean to be fully human?  For me it is about connection:  connection to oneself, others, the natural world and Spirit.  It is about being present as Eckert Tolle and Pema Chodron talk about in their works.  It is about letting the soft animal of my body love what it loves as Mary Oliver puts it so beautifully in her poem entitled Wild Geese.  Being connected and present as we face into the current world predicament is no small feat but one I believe the World is calling us to.  And when we connect and are present we give and receive great healing.  I believe that being fully human in the face of our present predicament is my most important work in the world.  Zen poet Thich Nhat Hanh was asked, “What do we most need to do to save our world?” His answer was this: “What we most need to do is to hear within us the sounds of the Earth crying” (from Joanna Macy’s article The Greatest Danger:  Trying to Escape Despair). 

We can’t hear the sounds of the Earth crying if we are not connected and if we are not present.  We must be paying attention.  Yet doing so takes incredible courage, support and time.  I have found this courage and support from authors like Derrick Jensen, Chellis Glendinning, Daniel Quinn, James Hillman and many others.  I have found this courage and support from many sites like Carolyn Baker’s, Sharon Astyk’s, Peak Oil Blues and others.  I have found this courage and support through conversations with you, Sally, Tim Bennett, Carolyn Baker, Karen Windham, dialogue circles and with many others. 

I have found the time to hear the sounds of the Earth crying by refusing to work full time and by dealing with some chronic physical pain which has forced me to learn to be still.  And in so doing I have become more fully human; connected and present.

SE:  How much are you following the alternative news these days and do you have thoughts or insights about the value or dangers of staying glued to the computer in order to stay abreast of current climate and economic crises? 

CR:  I have to confess that I am no longer following the news like I once did.  There was a time when I was spending up to two hours a day just reading articles in addition to the books I was reading and the conversations I was having.  Some time in the last six months that has radically changed.  I found that my energy was simply no longer there for that kind of intensity.  My mind wanted to keep reading and stay abreast of everything but my spirit began to refuse.  I began to feel a shift.  I realized that I was basically reading the same news over and over again with a different spin here and a different spin there; all really valuable but basically the same song, different verse with the tempo continually escalating. 

I had been reading and reading for years.  Why suddenly did I no longer have the energy for it?  Over time I’ve become aware that a spiritual shift is taking place.  I no longer want so much of my energy focused on collapse.  I still read the headlines daily from Carolyn Baker’s site, occasionally clicking on an article to skim through it.  I still surf my favorite sites and take a glance around.  And this is very valuable to me in keeping me awake but my focus and energy have shifted.  I find myself more focused on who I’m called to be in this time. What is my work in the world?  I find myself dealing with issues of detachment and trust, connection and presence, working with my ego and letting go of assumptions.  My energy seems more spiritually focused at this time and even as I say that I realize that immersing myself in the news for all that time was also a spiritual practice.  So perhaps it would be more accurate to say that my spiritual focus is changing. 

There is a way in which I had to stay glued to my computer for those years to be able to look clearly at what’s going on in the world.  I had to educate myself, let go of whole belief systems and let my world be turned upside down.  I had to sink to my knees in despair and spend long weeks and months crying.  In so doing I’ve come to a place of acceptance and openness.  And that is definitely ongoing work but I no longer need to stay glued to the computer in order to do this work.  It is helpful, however, for me to stay connected to what’s happening in the world by reading headlines and skimming articles.    

Of others I would simply ask, is staying glued to the computer helping you become more aware and connect more deeply or is it keeping you disconnected and paralyzed?  Folks know the difference.

SE:  People who talk and think and write a lot about the current state of the planet without offering much hope for easy fixes are affectionately called “Doomers”.  Do you consider yourself a “Doomer”?  What does that term mean to you?

CR:  Well, there is a part of me that enjoys the play of that word.  A few months ago during a dialogue circle a friend of mine rewrote the words to Cum-by-ya, renaming the song Doom-by-ya.  The rewrite was actually quite clever, fun and by the time we finished singing it most of us had shed a tear or two. 

According to Wikipedia, “a Doomer is a peaknik that in addition to the normal peak oil concerns over oil depletion leading to a severe economic recession or Great Depression, also believes in the inevitability of a Malthusian Catastrophe at the end of the cheap oil era."  So technically I suppose I am a Doomer!  And I definitely don’t believe in easy fixes.

What I don’t like about the label Doomer are some of the implications that go along with that word.  I am not glum or sullen.  I am not depressed or fear-ridden.  And I’m not powerless in the face of our planetary predicament.  Sure, I have my down and frightful days but basically I’m happy to be alive and believe that I am here at this time in our human history to play an important role.  And while it is a difficult time it is also quite exciting.  What I see is a death and rebirth.  Currently we are in the throes of death and destruction and it is brutal indeed.  But I also see glimmers of a new birth; an emergence of something new, a different way of being in the world, perhaps like the caterpillar consuming all, including itself, and becoming a new creature all together.

I don’t know.  I don’t pretend to know what’s going on but I do have a fundamental trust in Life.  And don’t get me wrong, I am angry at the destruction I see.  I deeply grieve the death throughout the world.  I have work to do in the face of that destruction.  And still I trust Life.

SE:  Over the last 10 years you’ve radically changed your life.  Talk a little bit about where you came from and how you’ve changed your life and how that has affected your sense of yourself in the world and the satisfaction and meaning that you are now deriving from life.

CR:  I come from a solidly middle class family who socialized with the upper middle class.  I was around well to do people all my life and aspired to wealth.  I married a banker and we were on the way to having much wealth.  We had the big suburban house with all the amenities.  I had the clothes and the make-up.  I was well coiffed and looked the part.  I had learned early on how to mix it up with the wealthy. 

There were parts of that world that I enjoyed but many more parts that felt incredibly empty and superficial to me.  After my mother’s death, my divorce and my world turning upside down things began to slowly shift over the next decade.  For one thing I realized that I never wanted to work full time again.  It took too much of my soul.  I began to connect with the natural world in a way that I hadn’t for years.  I began to fall in love with the natural world.  I began to find great pleasure and deep meaning there.  As my relationship with the natural world deepened I found myself respecting and caring for it more.  I began to question my life-style and how it was impacting the natural world. 

Not working full time meant less money to waste on non-essentials.  I began to scale way back and finally, before moving to Vermont, I ended up renting a single wide trailer on a fabulous piece of land and was happy as a Lark.  I was living more simply and happily than I ever had.  This radical simplicity was not difficult or painful for me, in fact my body relaxed in profound ways.  It was a natural outpouring of love.  The more enchanted I became with the natural world the less fascinated I was with the distractions of this culture.   “To find the universal elements enough; to find the air and the water exhilarating; to be refreshed by a morning walk or an evening saunter... to be thrilled by the stars at night; to be elated over a bird's nest or a wildflower in spring - these are some of the rewards of the simple life.”  (John Burroughs) 

The rewards of a simple life far exceed anything I ever experienced as a well to do suburbanite.  Most importantly, I am deeply connected to the natural world now and I find great meaning and sustenance there.

SE:  You recently moved with your partner to The Gathering Inn with three other people to embark on an insane project to live together.  How’s that going and how would you caution others who are thinking about needing to band together in more cooperative living groups to better weather the coming crises? 

CR:  Well, it has certainly been exciting and interesting embarking on this project at The Gathering Inn.  Read our home page and see for yourself what a cool and important journey we’ve embarked upon!

 As you know, Sally, I have been talking with you, Tim and Karen about living in community for years now.  I have said for a very long time that I will never survive collapse without my people.  I will never survive outside of community.  As I live here now I am surprised to find that my perspective is changing a bit.  I realize that I don’t feel called to survive (six plus billion people can’t survive on a finite planet!).  Instead, I feel called to notice.  I feel called to witness the natural world.  I feel called to witness the death and destruction.  I feel called to witness the beauty and the joy of life.  I feel called to be present.

When my mother was dying of cancer I went through a series of experiences as I came to terms with her diagnosis, much like coming to terms with the current world situation.  First was my horror at her diagnosis and an emotional melting down.  Then I moved into denial and found it easy to stay there because I could not see the dying in her.  She looked just fine.  A few months later she came to visit me for a few days.  During that visit, for the first time, I could see that she was dying.  I could no longer deny it.  It so freaked me out that I ran from her emotionally.  We had this precious and limited time together and I kept my distance because I was so angry, afraid and sad.  I did not want to see the death but I was clearly faced with it.  A few days later I drove her home where I would stay with her for the next three weeks.  On that five hour drive home I realized my emotional distance, came to a place of acceptance about her dying and made the decision to be present with her from here on out even in the midst of my deep grief.  I no longer stayed away from her emotionally.  I did not busy myself with trying to save her.  Instead, I attempted to sit with her and be present with her whenever I visited over the next three months.  I believe that was my greatest gift to her in the end and it was her gift to me to let me be present with her.  My sister and I speak of this often and how grateful we are that we were present with our dying mother and what a gift that was to her and to us.

I see a dying culture.  I see dying species.  I see dying souls.  I may or may not survive what’s coming and I see now that survival is not the most important thing for me.  The most important thing is to be present.

The other day, as I stared out my back door gazing upon the blushing mountain, I asked Life what it wanted of me.  Life did not say to me, Survive, or Get with your community.  Instead it said immediately and clearly:  Pay attention to me.  That’s my work in the world.  Does that mean that I won’t survive the unraveling of this culture?   Does that mean that I don’t get to live in community?  I don’t know.  It does mean that I better be asking the right questions out of the place of my highest, truest calling and not out of an ego, terrified and struggling to survive.

I believe that we all have a calling.  James Hillman calls it our soul’s code, what is embedded in us from birth, like an acorn destined to become a magnificent oak.  My calling is going to look different from Derrick Jensen’s calling and Carolyn Baker’s calling.  It’s even going to look different from the five people with whom I currently live. 

So here I am at The Gathering Inn looking at whether or not I’m called to the important work that is being done here.  What’s amazing to me is that five people can sit together for long hours through excitement, confusion, joy, anger, agreement, disagreement, hope and despair and be respectful and present with one another, finding a higher wisdom than any one of us can find alone. 

Ultimately, it seems, we are here to encourage one another to step into our calling to serve the highest good, whatever that may mean.  For me, that may or may not be at The Gathering Inn.  Time will tell.  But this experience is of great value to me in stripping away ego, opening to Spirit and practicing detachment with a group of loving individuals.

In cautioning others who are thinking about banding together in community I would ask a couple of questions.  What is Life asking of you?  What is your work in the world?  If in pursuing that you find that you are to band with others then I would caution you to select for emotional maturity as Diana Leafe Christian speaks to in Finding Community and Creating a Life Together.

One of the most important experiences for me at The Gathering Inn is in the stepping away from my fear of collapse and stepping into the power of my calling.  That’s what I believe all of us are doing at The Gathering Inn. 

So my questions to people as they contemplate joining with others are larger than how are you going to form community for the sake of survival.  Survival is not enough.  We need to be asking deeper questions.  Questions like:

What is Life asking of you?  Who will you be in the face of the current predicament?  What is your calling as the world unravels?

Stay tuned for Part II of Sally’s interview with Carla. 

Carla Royal, M.Ed. currently lives in Hancock, VT where she has her mentoring/eco-therapy practice, Beyond Therapy.  She conducts both face to face and phone sessions.  You can learn more about her services through her website at http://www.carlaroyal.net/, or contact her directly through her email at carla@royalmentoring.com.

Photo by Carla Royal. 2008